This question has been a thorn in the side of the online poker industry for some time now. What do I think? Is it cheating or just an allowable online poker non-cheat advantage?
Well, most people who use Hold’em Manager and other poker trackers say that they do so simply to analyze their own play and the play of their opponents. Many swear that nowadays it is virtually impossible to be a successful online poker player without the aid of these programs, and, they stress, they must be used at an optimum level where all their features come into maximum play.
What it really comes down to in my opinion is that it's just another case of "everybody's doing it and if I don't do it, I will be playing online poker at a disadvantage, almost to the point of actually cheating myself." As this is the case, it is hard for me to look at data mining as online poker cheating. This is not the same as the case with poker bots, where only a small percentage of online players are using those programs. I think that poker bots are clearly a form of online poker cheating.
As well, data mining might actually be good for online poker on the whole. It helps players expand their strategies, which make the online games in general more interesting and complex. I guess data mining should be considered as part of the natural evolution of online poker and not online poker cheating. I think it increases the skill factor and decreases the luck factor.
What I do not approve of is the indiscriminate buying and downloading of hands and the using of data mining to further obvious cheat operations such as collusion play. This goes beyond data mining where people are still playing "fair."
If you disagree with me, I understand, but the real issue is that online poker sites can't really do much to stop data-mining players. Maybe they might try to prevent players from buying hands and not allow them to use HUD when they're at the table, but you know what?...doing this is not going to be in the sites' interests, so we might as well forget about that.
So in the meantime, keep mining you're way to online poker riches!
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
Monday, April 19, 2010
Rat-Holing Online Poker Cheats--A New Online Poker Cheat Phenomenon
Move over Multi-Accounting! Rat-Holing is here! And it wants to get to the head of the online poker cheating class!
WE have been hearing much these past months about one multiaccounting online poker scam after another. But quietly if not suddenly, we are beginning to get wind of another insidious online poker scam--Rat Holing. The words Rat Holing alone have a creepy feel, and online poker cheating creeps like Nick Grudzien seem to fit that description well.
I came across this interesting article on Rat-Holing on bettingbetfair.com. Read it to learn more about how Rat-Holing scams work.
Article:
There has been a huge controversy in recent weeks over the online player 'Stoxtrader' being accused of multi accounting and colluding with other short stack players. In much of the discussion they have frequently been termed 'rat-holers' for their style of play, and here I want to explore a little what this term means, and why it is a relatively recent and damaging practice that has now marred the game slightly through these cheating allegations.
The term 'rat-holing' refers to a style of play where a player sits down at the table with the minimum buy in, and generally just plays push/fold poker followed by leaving as soon as they double up.
The term 'rat-holing' refers to a style of play where a player sits down at the table with the minimum buy in, and generally just plays push/fold poker followed by leaving as soon as they double up. This style of play is used to take advantage of deep stacked games due to the fact that those playing deep stacks end up calling against each other with weak hands due to the huge implied odds of deep stacked poker, and this is a point that rat-holer's use to shove over the weaker ranges without having to play much post flop poker (where they would struggle in skill terms against good deep stacked players).
They are a true online phenomenon, as only online have players been able to sit in a new game instantly. In live games, players are not allowed to take chips off of the table or sit back down at a table with less chips than they left with inside a certain time period, and due to the relatively small number of tables in live arenas, this policy always effectively stopped large scale rat-holing. Online however, so many tables are available, and so many tables break and re-start quickly, that rat holing became an immensely profitable way to take advantage of deep stacked games. It looks like 'Stoxtrader' and others had not only been looking to habitually play this style in many high stakes game, but to also collude amongst themselves to minimise their losses against each other and maximise their returns.
This is a new phenomenon in poker cheating (much like having multiple accounts in the same tournament was when online poker first started), but one that is important to stay observant to. If you suspect anything about this form of collusion do not hesitate to contact Betfair security.
Singapore's First Convicted Casino Cheat Gets Prison Time
Hou Yongwei, a 26 year-old Chinese national, has carved out a piece of history for himself in the world of legalized Singaporean gambling. Only problem is that he's gotta serve 10 months in a Singapore prison for his glory. Yongwei became the first person convicted for casino cheating at Resorts World Sentosa casino. I don't know what it's like inside Singapore's prisons, and I don't wanna find out, but I imagine it's nothing like those sweet prisons in Sweden!
Yongwei got caught pastposting (placing a bet after the outcome was known) S$600 on a 10 to 1 bet on a Tai Sai Chinese dice game that would have paid him S$6,000 had he gotten away with it. But after the dealer lifted the cover of the dice tumbler and revealed the winner to be triple-fours, Yongwei's pastpost was not clean enough and the dealer got suspicious. Surveillance was called in and they had the move on tape.
While sentencing Yongwei, who could have gotten five years behind bars according to Singapore criminal laws, District Judge Ronald Gwee let it be known that all casino cheats would face stiff sentences in his courtroom.
My take: I was never too thrilled about working Asian casinos, but the 10 months in prison is a lot better than what could have been meted out in Macau a few years back--I'm talking about convicted casino cheats getting their hands chopped off!
Ouch!!!
Yongwei got caught pastposting (placing a bet after the outcome was known) S$600 on a 10 to 1 bet on a Tai Sai Chinese dice game that would have paid him S$6,000 had he gotten away with it. But after the dealer lifted the cover of the dice tumbler and revealed the winner to be triple-fours, Yongwei's pastpost was not clean enough and the dealer got suspicious. Surveillance was called in and they had the move on tape.
While sentencing Yongwei, who could have gotten five years behind bars according to Singapore criminal laws, District Judge Ronald Gwee let it be known that all casino cheats would face stiff sentences in his courtroom.
My take: I was never too thrilled about working Asian casinos, but the 10 months in prison is a lot better than what could have been meted out in Macau a few years back--I'm talking about convicted casino cheats getting their hands chopped off!
Ouch!!!
Saturday, April 17, 2010
Is There a Connection Between the Video Game Cheating World and the Online Poker Cheating World?
You may have heard about the major cheating scandal that has engulfed Blizzard Entertainment's hugely popular StarCraft video game. you may have also noticed a plethora of online websites offering cheat programs for this video game as well as many others. And then as well, you may have noticed that many of today's hotshot young poker players, both online and in the real brick and mortar poker world, have come to the "cheating game" (poker's original name in the Wild West) via online computer video games like StarCraft. To name a few: Justin Bonomo (multi-accounting cheat), Eric Froehlich, David Williams, Brock Parker (2 WSOP bracelets), Bertrand “ElkY” Grospellier and Daniel “rekrul” Schreiber. And there are of course many, many more.
The cheating scandal that has hit Starcraft seems to involve the Korean video games community more than any other, but this does not mean that the Koreans coming into online poker are more apt to be online poker cheats than the rest of the players coming from the video game world. Justin Bonomo is not Korean, neither are most of the known online multi-accounters and colluders who´ve had vast online video game experience. One thing to take note of is that video game popularity has grown at about the same rate as online poker popularity, so we have a general crossover of the young generation excelling in both worlds.
The StarCraft cheat scam began in 2006. Illegal gambling cheat rings have been using top-notch pro StarCraft players to throw matches. Also, camp directors and coaches have been collecting fees, and league and tournament organizers seem to have known about it all and are even tinkering with the possibility of coexisting with the cheat rings responsible for all the corruption.
As many of StarCrafts' big names are currently under investigation, we may see a mass emigration from that world into the online poker world, which in my opinion will absolutely boost the online cheating incidents we are all sick and tiref of! And take this a warning! And heed it in the brick and mortar cardrooms too. If you learn that one of your opponents online or off is an ex-video games pro, BEWARE!
In fact, get out of the game.
The cheating scandal that has hit Starcraft seems to involve the Korean video games community more than any other, but this does not mean that the Koreans coming into online poker are more apt to be online poker cheats than the rest of the players coming from the video game world. Justin Bonomo is not Korean, neither are most of the known online multi-accounters and colluders who´ve had vast online video game experience. One thing to take note of is that video game popularity has grown at about the same rate as online poker popularity, so we have a general crossover of the young generation excelling in both worlds.
The StarCraft cheat scam began in 2006. Illegal gambling cheat rings have been using top-notch pro StarCraft players to throw matches. Also, camp directors and coaches have been collecting fees, and league and tournament organizers seem to have known about it all and are even tinkering with the possibility of coexisting with the cheat rings responsible for all the corruption.
As many of StarCrafts' big names are currently under investigation, we may see a mass emigration from that world into the online poker world, which in my opinion will absolutely boost the online cheating incidents we are all sick and tiref of! And take this a warning! And heed it in the brick and mortar cardrooms too. If you learn that one of your opponents online or off is an ex-video games pro, BEWARE!
In fact, get out of the game.
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
Shame on Daniel Negreanu For Calling Baseball "Complete Garbage"!
If you've read Daniel Negreanu's latest article for Card Player, you know that he wrote an unbridled attack against Major League Baseball. He actually had the gall to call it "complete garbage"! I have one comment to make on him (and his article).
Daniel Negreanu is an ASSHOLE!
Daniel Negreanu is an ASSHOLE!
Why am I so upset with him? Well, let's start with his article because there is more than just that and the fact he takes himself for some kind of sports and sports-betting guru. He states that baseball is garbage because the Yankees and the Red Sox buy up all the talented free agents and therefore take all the competitiveness out of the game. WRONG! Despite the Red Sox and the Yankees winning three of the last six World Series, there is still plenty of competition in baseball, lots of it coming from teams that do not have big bankrolls to buy free agents. All Negreanu has to do to see this reality is take a look at the Minnesota Twins and Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Look, I understand that baseball has been affected by free agency more than other professional sports, but baseball--just like poker, Danny Boy, is a business. And, while we're on the subject, I find it terribe that poker is even considered a sport and that a poker pro takes it upon himself to blog about his opinions on sports and betting on sports.
Speaking of which, Negreanu is so quick to criticize baseball and question its credibility, but does he tell you about all the COMPLETE GARBAGE that he's involved in? Take a look at his mug playing High Stakes Poker on the Game Show Network. Talk about complete garbage! Negreanu doesn't tell you or write about how full of shit that is. Instead he lets you and me believe that he, Sam Farha, Brunson, Jennifer Harmon and the rest of them are really playing for all those hundreds of thousands, instead of telling us the truth that its all hyped-up bullshit for ratings and big money for them for their TV appearances. He also doesn't mention that any money won or lost at the High Stakes Poker Table is just for show, whether or not the network execs are in on it. In fact, if you want to read the real facts about High Stakes Poker, click here for my article on it that has appeared in several poker magazines.
So in short, Negreanu, why don't you just stick to your poker and keep your mouth shut about stuff you know nothing about...or about scams like High Stakes Poker that you participate in.
Monday, April 12, 2010
Why Good Blackjack Pastposts Continue to Dupe the World's Casinos
Hardly a week goes by that I don't find an online news article about improvements made to casino video surveillance systems that are sure to reduce casino cheats' success rate to zero. In the last three days alone, I have read five such articles about video surveillance improvements in casinos in Singapore and Australia, not to mention that both are areas getting hammered by professional casino cheat teams.
These articles, obviously written by reporters and journalists who know nothing about cheating casinos and only write verbatim what casino officials tell them during interviews, make me laugh! I know from tons of firsthand experience that all these video-systems improvements only serve AFTER the fact. They don't help casino dealers and supervisors against cheating WHILE the cheating is actually going on. Why is this so true? Because good casino cheats know how to offset surveillance systems. What they do is employ strategy setups with built-in psychology that fool the human beings on the casinos' floors so that video surveillance never comes into play. Don't forget, I am talking about skilled casino-cheat teams. The cameras will of course catch the scores of amateur and desperado cheats, but a talented cheat doing moves such as the fabled blackjack ten-oh-five will overcome whatever improvements are made to security and surveillance.
The point I'm making is that casinos, if they truly want to stop or reduce the success of the real professional cheats, need to have their HUMAN BEINGS trained in the art of casino cheating. This way their staff will know WHEN to call surveillance for video verifications.
These articles, obviously written by reporters and journalists who know nothing about cheating casinos and only write verbatim what casino officials tell them during interviews, make me laugh! I know from tons of firsthand experience that all these video-systems improvements only serve AFTER the fact. They don't help casino dealers and supervisors against cheating WHILE the cheating is actually going on. Why is this so true? Because good casino cheats know how to offset surveillance systems. What they do is employ strategy setups with built-in psychology that fool the human beings on the casinos' floors so that video surveillance never comes into play. Don't forget, I am talking about skilled casino-cheat teams. The cameras will of course catch the scores of amateur and desperado cheats, but a talented cheat doing moves such as the fabled blackjack ten-oh-five will overcome whatever improvements are made to security and surveillance.
The point I'm making is that casinos, if they truly want to stop or reduce the success of the real professional cheats, need to have their HUMAN BEINGS trained in the art of casino cheating. This way their staff will know WHEN to call surveillance for video verifications.
Sunday, April 11, 2010
Poker Cheat Nick Grudzien Now Facing Solid Collusion Evidence Against Him in Full Tilt and PokerStars Online Cheat Scams!
Source: flopturnriver.com
Three weeks ago, StoxPoker.com founder and high stakes poker pro Nick Grudzien admitted to using multiple accounts on Full Tilt and PokerStars but denied charges that he was colluding. Earlier today, NoahSD posted a detailed investigative report on the 2+2 high stakes forum proving the accusations to be true.
The full report, which you can see here, is a detailed analysis of the preflop play between the suspected players. Noah also produced a summary of his report that you can see here.
Noah showed that Nick Grudzien colluded with his friend and business partner Robert Papps by analyzing the number of times they 3-bet against each other compared to against other players. He showed that the variation in their play could not be justified through strategic reasons or through random chance. His post was met with wide acclaim and applause from the 2+2 community, who confirmed his analysis and thanked him for his work. They also heavily criticized Full Tilt and PokerStars, who were alerted that the players were colluding over a year ago, but failed to properly investigate the situation.
While colluding, Grudzien played under his false accounts “40putts” on Full Tilt and “knockstiff” PokerStars. His friend played as “Kinetica” and “LittleZen.” Both of the players employed a short stack strategy. Under this type of play, a player generally plays with a 20BB stack and either shoves or folds against preflop opening raises. Noah’s analysis showed that they only 3-bet 1-2% of hands when playing against each other. This represents a range of KK+, AK, which is far lower than against any other players, and far too low to make sense with their strategies.
Noah found that these two players put in more hands against each other than against anyone else, sat next to each other whenever possible, and had highly correlated session times. He also proved that these stats could not reasonably have occurred by random chance. He undertook this investigation and report because he was outraged by Grudzien’s actions and by Full Tilt and PokerStars failure to detect the cheating.
Some posters pointed out that Noah’s analysis clearly shows softplaying, but not colluding. In response, Noah said that the only difference is a matter of intention, and that “if you have to prove intention in order to prove collusion, then we’d never be able to prove that people colluded unless they were dumb enough to admit it.” He added, “I proved that they played exactly like cheaters would. I showed that they had no rational reason for doing this except to cheat.”
2+2 Sponsored Coach “boywonder” called the report “Very clearly outlined deductive work… I could see that they were colluding without a doubt, and this proves that without that evidence having to be released.” He too criticized the two poker networks, demanding that the accounts be frozen and all money used to refund the players they colluded against. “If refunds are not made, I would expect Stars to make their investigation public and refute the evidence brought forward here by Noah,” he said.
Noah and the 2+2 community is still awaiting a response from Full Tilt and PokerStars. Grudzien has not responded to the report, and there is no word on whether or not the disputed money is still in his online accounts.
Thanks to Noah and his associates for their excellent work revealing this scandal.
Three weeks ago, StoxPoker.com founder and high stakes poker pro Nick Grudzien admitted to using multiple accounts on Full Tilt and PokerStars but denied charges that he was colluding. Earlier today, NoahSD posted a detailed investigative report on the 2+2 high stakes forum proving the accusations to be true.
The full report, which you can see here, is a detailed analysis of the preflop play between the suspected players. Noah also produced a summary of his report that you can see here.
Noah showed that Nick Grudzien colluded with his friend and business partner Robert Papps by analyzing the number of times they 3-bet against each other compared to against other players. He showed that the variation in their play could not be justified through strategic reasons or through random chance. His post was met with wide acclaim and applause from the 2+2 community, who confirmed his analysis and thanked him for his work. They also heavily criticized Full Tilt and PokerStars, who were alerted that the players were colluding over a year ago, but failed to properly investigate the situation.
While colluding, Grudzien played under his false accounts “40putts” on Full Tilt and “knockstiff” PokerStars. His friend played as “Kinetica” and “LittleZen.” Both of the players employed a short stack strategy. Under this type of play, a player generally plays with a 20BB stack and either shoves or folds against preflop opening raises. Noah’s analysis showed that they only 3-bet 1-2% of hands when playing against each other. This represents a range of KK+, AK, which is far lower than against any other players, and far too low to make sense with their strategies.
Noah found that these two players put in more hands against each other than against anyone else, sat next to each other whenever possible, and had highly correlated session times. He also proved that these stats could not reasonably have occurred by random chance. He undertook this investigation and report because he was outraged by Grudzien’s actions and by Full Tilt and PokerStars failure to detect the cheating.
Some posters pointed out that Noah’s analysis clearly shows softplaying, but not colluding. In response, Noah said that the only difference is a matter of intention, and that “if you have to prove intention in order to prove collusion, then we’d never be able to prove that people colluded unless they were dumb enough to admit it.” He added, “I proved that they played exactly like cheaters would. I showed that they had no rational reason for doing this except to cheat.”
2+2 Sponsored Coach “boywonder” called the report “Very clearly outlined deductive work… I could see that they were colluding without a doubt, and this proves that without that evidence having to be released.” He too criticized the two poker networks, demanding that the accounts be frozen and all money used to refund the players they colluded against. “If refunds are not made, I would expect Stars to make their investigation public and refute the evidence brought forward here by Noah,” he said.
Noah and the 2+2 community is still awaiting a response from Full Tilt and PokerStars. Grudzien has not responded to the report, and there is no word on whether or not the disputed money is still in his online accounts.
Thanks to Noah and his associates for their excellent work revealing this scandal.
Australia's Star City Casino To Beef Up Surveillance Tech In Wake of Cheating Blitz!
Australia has been a great cheat haven for professional casino and poker teams for a long time now, at least since the days when I was beating their pants off in the '90s. Now officials of the Star City Casino in Sydney have announced that they're going to beef up their surveillance systems in an attempt to catch...or at least thwart some of the cheating.
According to its plan, Star City Casino will increase its total number of video cameras by 50 per cent within the next 18 months. They say they are particularly concerned with cheating going on at table games, especially blackjack and baccarat, where dealer-insider false-shuffle scams have hit hard the past 20 years. As of now, Star City has some 1200 cameras that cover its gaming space, which includes a special high rollers salon. Currently, surveillance inspectors have been catching lots of chip and slot-credit snatchers, and they say they have caught twice as many cheats in the past 12 months than in the previous 12 months, but obviously they know they are getting beat twice as much as well.
According to Star City's numbers, 446 cases of thefts and casino cheating have been reported since Jan. 1, 2009, about 30 per month. Previous figures released by the New South Wales Casino Control Authority reported 177 incidents of theft, fraud and cheating during a twelve-month span from June 2008 to June 2009.
"We don't believe there's been a rise in crime. There has been an increase in the number of criminals apprehended," a Star City Casino spokesman told the press. Those cheats have included using stolen and counterfeit casino chips as well as marked cards.
My take: Well, I think that Star City spokesman left a lot out of his statement. I personally know that the casino, as well as others Down Under, have been hit repeatedly by roulette pastposting teams, blackjack card counters and have also been victimized by Asian baccarat cheats bribing dealers as the Tran Organization did in the US and Canada. Its increased surveillance cameras will only help a little. As I have always said, well-trained personnel in the area of anti-cheating does a lot more for casino security than whatever high-tech equipment they can bring in.
According to its plan, Star City Casino will increase its total number of video cameras by 50 per cent within the next 18 months. They say they are particularly concerned with cheating going on at table games, especially blackjack and baccarat, where dealer-insider false-shuffle scams have hit hard the past 20 years. As of now, Star City has some 1200 cameras that cover its gaming space, which includes a special high rollers salon. Currently, surveillance inspectors have been catching lots of chip and slot-credit snatchers, and they say they have caught twice as many cheats in the past 12 months than in the previous 12 months, but obviously they know they are getting beat twice as much as well.
According to Star City's numbers, 446 cases of thefts and casino cheating have been reported since Jan. 1, 2009, about 30 per month. Previous figures released by the New South Wales Casino Control Authority reported 177 incidents of theft, fraud and cheating during a twelve-month span from June 2008 to June 2009.
"We don't believe there's been a rise in crime. There has been an increase in the number of criminals apprehended," a Star City Casino spokesman told the press. Those cheats have included using stolen and counterfeit casino chips as well as marked cards.
My take: Well, I think that Star City spokesman left a lot out of his statement. I personally know that the casino, as well as others Down Under, have been hit repeatedly by roulette pastposting teams, blackjack card counters and have also been victimized by Asian baccarat cheats bribing dealers as the Tran Organization did in the US and Canada. Its increased surveillance cameras will only help a little. As I have always said, well-trained personnel in the area of anti-cheating does a lot more for casino security than whatever high-tech equipment they can bring in.
Thursday, April 08, 2010
Tran Organization Blackjack Dealer Gets Light Sentence For Ripping Off Mohegan Sun
Source: theday.com
A U.S. District judge sentenced former Mohegan Sun table games dealer Jesus Rodriguez Wednesday to two months in federal prison and three years' supervised release for participating in a card cheating scam operated in Connecticut and throughout the country by the San Diego-based Tran Organization.
Judge Mark R. Kravitz also ordered Rodriguez and others involved to re-pay the casino $126,000. The 40-year-old Groton man had admitted to being recruited by the organization, getting coached on performing "false shuffles" and helping the organization to steal more than $100,000 from the Uncasville casino in blackjack and baccarat games. He performed the false shuffle two or three times and was paid $2,500 to $4,000 each time, according to a court document.
Through the scheme, a co-conspirator tracked the order of cards as they were legitimately played, and then Rodriguez performed a false shuffle, creating a "slug" of un-shuffled cards. A co-conspirator tracked the cards until the slug reappeared as they were being dealt, then signaled to others as to how to bet on the subsequent hands in order to cheat the casino.
More than 30 people nationwide have been charged in an investigation led by Department of Justice Criminal Division's Organized Crime and Racketeering Section. The cheating schemes occurred at more than two dozen casinos in the United States and Canada. Rodriguez had faced a lengthier sentence under federal guidelines. His attorney, Jeremiah Donovan, argued for a reduction, citing Rodriguez's prior lack of a criminal record and his history as a hard-working, law-abiding citizen. Each false shuffle lasted about 10 seconds, Donovan noted, "So the length of Mr. Rodriguez's overt activity in furtherance of the conspiracy was thus about 30 seconds."
Rodriguez, who had worked at the casino since 2001, resigned in 2009 after hearing he would be indicted.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael S. McGarry argued Rodriguez's actions hurt the casino owners and employees as well as the state of Connecticut, which receives a portion of the casino's revenues.
A U.S. District judge sentenced former Mohegan Sun table games dealer Jesus Rodriguez Wednesday to two months in federal prison and three years' supervised release for participating in a card cheating scam operated in Connecticut and throughout the country by the San Diego-based Tran Organization.
Judge Mark R. Kravitz also ordered Rodriguez and others involved to re-pay the casino $126,000. The 40-year-old Groton man had admitted to being recruited by the organization, getting coached on performing "false shuffles" and helping the organization to steal more than $100,000 from the Uncasville casino in blackjack and baccarat games. He performed the false shuffle two or three times and was paid $2,500 to $4,000 each time, according to a court document.
Through the scheme, a co-conspirator tracked the order of cards as they were legitimately played, and then Rodriguez performed a false shuffle, creating a "slug" of un-shuffled cards. A co-conspirator tracked the cards until the slug reappeared as they were being dealt, then signaled to others as to how to bet on the subsequent hands in order to cheat the casino.
More than 30 people nationwide have been charged in an investigation led by Department of Justice Criminal Division's Organized Crime and Racketeering Section. The cheating schemes occurred at more than two dozen casinos in the United States and Canada. Rodriguez had faced a lengthier sentence under federal guidelines. His attorney, Jeremiah Donovan, argued for a reduction, citing Rodriguez's prior lack of a criminal record and his history as a hard-working, law-abiding citizen. Each false shuffle lasted about 10 seconds, Donovan noted, "So the length of Mr. Rodriguez's overt activity in furtherance of the conspiracy was thus about 30 seconds."
Rodriguez, who had worked at the casino since 2001, resigned in 2009 after hearing he would be indicted.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael S. McGarry argued Rodriguez's actions hurt the casino owners and employees as well as the state of Connecticut, which receives a portion of the casino's revenues.
Indiana Card-Counting Case Goes to Court
Source: businessweek.com
An Indianapolis man banned from a riverboat casino's blackjack table because he counts cards just wants the casino to follow the rules, same as he does, his attorney told the Indiana Supreme Court on Wednesday.
"Grand Victoria has admitted that my client did nothing wrong," said Marc Sedwick, Tom Donovan's attorney.
The casino on the Ohio River at Rising Sun maintains that it, like any private business, has the common-law right to choose not to do business with anyone "for any reason or no reason," casino attorney Peter Rusthoven said.
But Justice Frank Sullivan Jr. had an idea what the reason might be.
"What you object to about him is that he's too good," he told Rusthoven.
Donovan, a retired computer programmer, said he's won about $65,000 playing blackjack since 1999. He learned to count cards by taking an online class in it after hearing a radio station interview an expert card counter.
Donovan sued the Grand Victoria Casino and Resort after it banned him from the blackjack table in 2006. The casino won the suit in a Marion County court, but the state appeals court reversed that decision and the casino asked the high court to weigh in.
"I'm not cheating at all. It's just using my brain," Donovan said.
Neither the state nor the casino has rules forbidding card counting, Sedwick said. In fact, he argued, state guidelines encourage players to keep track of their own scores.
Rusthoven countered that that applied only to the cards laid out on the table, not those left in the deck.
The core of the dispute comes down to which set of rules should apply: the common law that predates legalized gambling or the state regulations governing gaming. Sedwick pointed to a New Jersey Supreme Court ruling that cited that state's regulations in siding with a card counter who had been banned from a casino there.
"Gaming is a statutory creature" that didn't exist in common-law times, Sedwick argued, so state regulations should apply. Those regulations don't bar card counting, and the casino never asked the state gaming commission to enact a rule forbidding it, he said.
"The issue this court faces," Rusthoven said, "is whether the common-law right to exclude anybody for any reason or no reason has been abrogated by the commission's silence."
He argued it hadn't, and the commission couldn't be expected to anticipate every possible circumstance in its rules.
"Everybody who watches movies knows if somebody tries to count cards, casinos don't like it sometimes," Rusthoven said.
State Gaming Commission Director Ernie Yelton said that before the Court of Appeals ruling, it was generally understood that common law allowed casinos to ban card counters, as they are allowed to do in most states. He said two or three casinos approached the commission since the Court of Appeals decision, seeking a rule granting them the specific authority to bar card counters.
But the commission is waiting to see what the court decides, Yelton said.
"We're not taking a position on this," he said. "I respect the authority of the court in these decisions."
An Indianapolis man banned from a riverboat casino's blackjack table because he counts cards just wants the casino to follow the rules, same as he does, his attorney told the Indiana Supreme Court on Wednesday.
"Grand Victoria has admitted that my client did nothing wrong," said Marc Sedwick, Tom Donovan's attorney.
The casino on the Ohio River at Rising Sun maintains that it, like any private business, has the common-law right to choose not to do business with anyone "for any reason or no reason," casino attorney Peter Rusthoven said.
But Justice Frank Sullivan Jr. had an idea what the reason might be.
"What you object to about him is that he's too good," he told Rusthoven.
Donovan, a retired computer programmer, said he's won about $65,000 playing blackjack since 1999. He learned to count cards by taking an online class in it after hearing a radio station interview an expert card counter.
Donovan sued the Grand Victoria Casino and Resort after it banned him from the blackjack table in 2006. The casino won the suit in a Marion County court, but the state appeals court reversed that decision and the casino asked the high court to weigh in.
"I'm not cheating at all. It's just using my brain," Donovan said.
Neither the state nor the casino has rules forbidding card counting, Sedwick said. In fact, he argued, state guidelines encourage players to keep track of their own scores.
Rusthoven countered that that applied only to the cards laid out on the table, not those left in the deck.
The core of the dispute comes down to which set of rules should apply: the common law that predates legalized gambling or the state regulations governing gaming. Sedwick pointed to a New Jersey Supreme Court ruling that cited that state's regulations in siding with a card counter who had been banned from a casino there.
"Gaming is a statutory creature" that didn't exist in common-law times, Sedwick argued, so state regulations should apply. Those regulations don't bar card counting, and the casino never asked the state gaming commission to enact a rule forbidding it, he said.
"The issue this court faces," Rusthoven said, "is whether the common-law right to exclude anybody for any reason or no reason has been abrogated by the commission's silence."
He argued it hadn't, and the commission couldn't be expected to anticipate every possible circumstance in its rules.
"Everybody who watches movies knows if somebody tries to count cards, casinos don't like it sometimes," Rusthoven said.
State Gaming Commission Director Ernie Yelton said that before the Court of Appeals ruling, it was generally understood that common law allowed casinos to ban card counters, as they are allowed to do in most states. He said two or three casinos approached the commission since the Court of Appeals decision, seeking a rule granting them the specific authority to bar card counters.
But the commission is waiting to see what the court decides, Yelton said.
"We're not taking a position on this," he said. "I respect the authority of the court in these decisions."
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